Gruden - Newton

You quote me and still havent realised it says nothing about 2003, who's the ignorant one?

Facts are, i clearly showed the high round busts from 1997-2003. Why? Because not since last year has DT been taken so highly as McCoy and Suh. A year later, here we sit in a similar position with Dareus and Fairley.

After 2003 the only DT's drafted relatively highly were Ellis, Dorsey, Okoye and Raji. Thats it, 4 DT's in the top 10 over 6 years. I even threw you a bone with Ngata.

Dorsey and Okoye may not technically be busts yet but neither has proven their draft value. You could even make the arguement that Ellis and Raji were drafted by teams on the rise (both won recent SB's with Franchise QB's) and were not drafted by "true" bottom 10 teams, like we are.

So prior to last year thats a 50% hit rate using your 2003 scenario. Will Suh continue his dominance? Will McCoy prove to be worth the #3 pick? Only time will tell.

If you want to retort with some actual facts that would be amazing, rather than your childish bluster. I dont know why you insist ignoring what happened prior to 2003, are those years not relevant somehow or do they just fuck up some weird stat you've got stuck in your head?

 

yup.

 

doesn't it bother you just a little that you're having to resort to agreeing w/ brian billick? the offensive juggernaut mastermind, whose offenses i remember didn't do squat and got him canned. the guy who went after boller because he could throw from his knees through the goalpost.

 

You showed that DTs have busted in the past, which no one disputed since every position has them. If you weren't so colossally retarded then maybe the significance of no high first DT busts since 2003 would actually dawn on you, but no, instead we are cursed to deal with your constant inability to comprehend anything more complex than a toilet seat.

Suh, McCoy, Raji, Dorsey, Ellis, Okoye, Ngata, and Harris have proven themselves to not be busts. Dorsey and Okoye are just mediocre, but they're at least contributing, which is more than you can say for the actual busts at QB. Suh, Raji, Ngata, and Harris all either are or were elite (Harris' injuries make it look like he'll never get back there). For that matter, you cited Corey Simon as a bust which continued to make you look like a total moron since he was a Pro Bowl player before injuries derailed his career as well. For the record, you also happened to leave Ty Warren out of the '03 class, and while he was never elite, he certainly wasn't a bust.

Ugh. Please understand that no one gives a shit what you think. No one has ever sat at their computer thinking about the Panthers and thought "I wonder what CelticCat's opinion is." You said something wrong, which is fine since everyone certainly including myself makes mistakes. Your problem is that you didn't just shut the fuck up when I provided the facts that proved your statement wrong. Instead you got defensive and belligerent, which is a complete waste both because you will never beat me in an argument, and because you're causing a conflict when no one else cares what you think anyway. And for the record, I'm not ignoring the years prior to 2003, but it's pretty glaring to note that there haven't been any top 15 busts at DT since that draft given what you said about them busting often. Clearly you were wrong, so please learn to either admit your mistake or just let it fucking go.

 

In an attempt to bring something useful out of this otherwise ridiculous argument, I will say that QBs who don't suck their way right out of the league do have much longer careers on average than defensive tackles. They're also lower injury risks for the most part. So a guy like Dareus might be like Simon or Harris and get off to a Pro Bowl start in one of his first few seasons, then have injuries end his effectiveness. That's less of a risk at QB, where if a guy is worth a shit to begin with then he'll probably be worth a shit for quite a while.

 

Clausen = not worth a shit to begin with.

#bummer

 

Indubitably.

 

Yeah it is a bummer. I really wish there was some way he hadn't played last year. And Fox, seemed to me he didn't mind rubbing their (edit:and our) noses in it.

 

Just saw it. I'd say Cam's strengths at this point are his natural likeability and leadership, which came across loud and clear in the interview. The anti Clausen, if you will. Clearly had some work to do on getting up to speed on a pro offense, but I think too much was made of the "you put me on the spot" comment. Auburn called plays by number instead of by name. Can didn't articulate that well, but clearly he can read the defenses he faced and diagnose correctly.

He reminds me strikingly of Donovan McNabb at this point, both his strengths and his weaknesses.

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Well, being shit as a rookie quarterback doesn't necessarily mean you'll be shit forever. Clausen should be developed for another season or two, and if he turns into something then great.

McNabb is a pretty fair comparison as a quarterback, although it should be noted again that McNabb was a squeaky-clean teammate and leader, while Newton is quite the opposite.