Hmmmmmmmmm, is it time to pray for Oprah's salvation ? ? ?

I understand a little bit too I guess. But it doesn't apply only to Christians because they're a "majority religion". Any representative of any belief system that takes a judgemental, condescending approach toward others, regardless of the situation, is going to come across as offensive. I readily admit....I find Christian Bible-thumpers highly offensive. I recently saw two people (a man and a boy, maybe 10 years old) standing on the corner of a major intersection here in my hometown. The man was standing back watching and nodding while the boy held a Bible in the air and was literally screaming at the people in the cars passing by. I dare say that for every one person that kind of crap may have brought to God, it's turned a million away. I don't think that's what Jesus intended when he called Christians to be "fishers of men".

Well, I believe that there is only one way to eternally be with God and that all other paths lead to eternal separation from God, a.k.a. Hell. Whether they want me to or not, I truly hope and pray that all of the people I care about in life will somehow find their way there at some point in their life and not have to experience Hell. If that's rude or offensive, I guess I'm guilty.

Nope, wouldn't offend me. I've said it many times before....I respect the God-given freewill that we all have. Doesn't mean I'd put any faith in the spell doing what it was intended to (just like you wouldn't put any faith in my prayer), but I could appreciate any good intentions behind it. By the same token, If I'm going through a tough time and a non-religious friend tells me they're sending "good thoughts" my way, I appreciate it.

When I pray for a "lost" person, including myself, I simply pray that it be God's will that He reveal Himself to that person in a way that leads them in the right direction. I never say something like "God, when so-and-so is driving to work Monday morning, you need to take over their radio and in a booming voice, tell them how they need to straighten out their life".

As for what "truth" should be revealed, I believe God has made that abundantly clear already. I've never really felt the need to remind Him what it is.






Geez, it's late and my eyes are crossing. I hope I'm halfway saying what I'm trying to say.

 

I've started and stopped my response to this thread at least half a dozen times. I wondered if the word `arrogant' was used appropriately and in hindsight, I think it was.

Rotocub, you last response struck me as exactly what I'm trying to get at. You said two very simple words - "I believe" - and I guess that's part of what I'm trying to promote in advancing this discussion. You could pretty much bang on for ten pages about the earth being flat, squirrels being the Anti-Christ, and the sky being made out of jelly and I'd respect it because you clearly stated that you believe it.

SDS, you stated (and I'm sorry that I'm not doing the flash multi-quote thing) that "...present the facts that Jesus is the way to God". That's your belief system. Not everyone shares that. I don't. Your facts will probably be different to mine - and that's okay with me.

I think it's an important part of our development as human beings that we're exposed to different thinking, different views on religion and other matters. In that respect, I think what Oprah (and others) are doing is thought provoking and challenging - good for her. If it encourages one person to find something - be it a belief, engaging in some self development that makes their life easier, guiding them to be a better person - then it should be encouraged and embraced. Why fear it?

 

I do love discussions like this They always make me think, & I always learn something.

You're absolutely right. I really didn't intend to limit that kind of behavior to one group. I'm sure there are examples of this type of person in all faiths. It's my experience that's limited on this point, not the varieties of arrogant people

No, I don't find that honest hope for me & others offensive at all. When it's sincere, I do accept it in the way that person means it--as a sharing of something they value & believe in & want to share. There are some people who resent it regardless of the intent, & that's unfortunate. Prayers & wishes with positive intent from anyone & for anyone are all good as far as I'm concerned. Attitude & intent in such things make a world of difference in how I perceive & accept them. I'm only offended if it's coming from a self-righteous or manipulative point of view.

Maybe I should also make clear that by "self-righteous" I don't mean ANYONE who sincerely believes his/her faith is the only right or true way. That's central to some faiths, & while I disagree with it, I also respect the rights of others to their views. What I mean is the combination of that belief with an assumption of superiority & a lack of respect for anyone who disagrees. I don't think believing that yours is THE right way has to include that kind of disrespect. From what you have said here, I don't see that negative attitude in you at all.

That's awesome And I must say, uncommon in my personal experience with Christians who are more active than casual in their faith. I do know some who appreciate my prayers or good wishes or "vibes" on their behalf, & even a rare few who would appreciate my intention if I performed some pagan ritual on their behalf, if not the ritual itself. (That actually would never happen unless they requested it for reasons I mentioned before--just a theoretical situation). I honestly don't know if more than 1 or 2 of them consider those of any value other than my good intent.

Truthfully, if you or anyone prays or performs any sort of ritual on my behalf with good intent, regardless of their faith, I absolutely DO believe that it will have a positive effect. As mentioned before the answer may be NO Or the answer may take some form not expected by the prayER or the prayEE. But I'm confident that it will be effective in some respect.

That's cool Some folks (regardless of faith) do feel the need to spell it out for God. Sometimes I see the humor in that; but now & then it just grates on my last nerve

Exactly. I have no problem with someone believing differently than I do & being convinced that what they believe is right. But none of us can PROVE what we believe in any concrete way, can we? So even if I'm 100% positive I'm right, I still owe my fellow human beings who disagree respect for the sincerity of THEIR beliefs. That kind of respect is positive in both attitude & effect on both sides, & something I would consider godly behavior.

Yes, absolutely! It's very important that we be challenged in multiple ways, & especially on what we believe, over & over. It's how we learn & grow, how we develop character & enduring values. I think those who fear & run from such challenges get stuck in patterns of thinking that are more habit than true conviction--& that's a sad waste of potential.

EDIT: Just an afterthought that came to me just after I posted this--for whatever it's worth As my thinking & spirituality have grown & changed over the years, I've grown more confident in what I believe. But paradoxically, it has become much less important to me that what I believe turns out to be "right." In other words, I'm deeply sincere in what I believe. But if I die tonight & enter some afterlife & find out that I'm wrong on this or that or a LOT--that's okay. I know I've done the best I could with the information & resources I had at the time. If I'm off base, I'll do the best I can with that information then. I hope that would be more than just saying OOPS

 

There's no such thing as a "New Age" religion, other than in the imaginations of a certain breed of Christian evangelists.

 

I agree that happens, but that's not always the case. There are some Christians who take the salvation of non-Christians very seriously, and ask for prayers to that end out of sheer compassion. IMO, this has to be determined on a case-by-case basis.

As do sincere Jews, sincere Buddhists, sincere Hindus, sincere Muslims...

I totally agree. Learning about other faiths from those who hold them has been invaluable to me -- not only to relate to others, but also to understand my own faith better.

I didn't know that. Thanks for posting that -- seriously!

Not at all. I would take it in the spirit in which it was intended. But that's just me.

 

I don't understand why that would be condescending - why wouldn't your response simply be, thank you, I'll pray for you too? Now, if the Christian then said something along the lines of your prayers not being worth as much as his/hers because of who/what you pray to, then I would totally agree that was condescending and offensive.

 

I had a couple of nervous-looking church girls ambush me in the Hastings music section because I was wearing a Hellraiser t-shirt and they tried to talk me into coming to know Jesus. I could have been a dick to them but I wasn't. I was able to get them to go away by saying they were welcome to pray for me if they liked. People can't actively bother you if they're praying.

 

"Ambushed". I agree, that's a good word for it. Happened to me once too. A couple girls came up to me in an arcade when I was younger (around 20 years old) and bluntly asked "If you died today, would you go to hell?" Even as a Christian, that turns me off so much I can't stand it. I quickly replied "Sorry, I'm trying to find a friend of mine" and walked off.

Several years back I worked with a really weird guy who found out I was a Christain and almost immediately told me he wanted me to start giving up things I enjoyed (like golf, etc.) and start hanging out with him going to malls and other public places to evangelize people. Needless to say, I still play golf.

 

Just wondering, do any other of the main religions (Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim) have any quotes stating that their faith/God is 'the way' ? ? ? Jesus does make a bold statement, doesn't he ? ? ? ? He doesn't say he is one of the ways, he says that he is THE way.

In the overall discussion of religion, hey I think its good that we can disucss the basics and differences between the main faiths of the world. I'm just concerned when some 'new' religion/faith based system pops up on the scene, someone famous endorses it, and then all of a sudden people flock to it. I like OPRAH and give her props for what she's done in her life (hell, I would be glad to have 1/4 of the success in the things she has accomplished and done). But I'm just concerned that she has strayed off a proven path to God to embracing a path which may feel good to her now but doesn't guarantee a path to heaven once this life is over.

 

Most of the time that is my response, more or less. Most of us can generally tell when someone is being condescending or insincere. Think of it this way: you know how we southerners can say, "Bless your heart," & mean it to express empathy & caring? But on the other hand it might mean the exact opposite? And when we say it in a way to mean the opposite of the literal words, there's an attitude that generally comes through to tell you the speaker is being sarcastic. It's something like that