Running Red Sox thread

He's going to be a free agent next year, so you're really talking about just getting this year in addition to whatever FA contract he signs. I guess it's more accurate to say that seems to be an awful lot to give up to get him for an extra year, plus the exclusive right to get him to sign an extention.

There is no doubt at all that the Sox would be in on any negotiations this time next year if he's an FA.

 

technically, I guess, they're trading for the year left on his current deal. But the chances he's gonna make it to free agency are slim to none. The twinkies are gonna want to get something out of him other than a couple draft picks, and the assumption here is Santana will waive his no trade clause, either before or during the 08 season, especially if it means he'll be going to a contender. Of course, there's always the possibility the twins make a legit playoff push.

 

What I mean is that if the Sox sign him next year when he's an FA, what will they have given up all those prospects for?

This year. That's it.

 

technically, I guess that's correct. but if they got him in a trade now, they wouldn't complete the deal until after they'd signed him to an extension, similar in length to if they got him as a FA (I'm assuming the year remaining on his current contract is voided, then the extension signed).

 

Egg Zachary. So, you'd be giving up all of those prospects for what?

This year.

I'd love to have Santana, but it's not worth clearing out the farm system for this deal.

 

c'mon. if they sign him to a five or six year extension — and they don't complete the deal without a long-term extension in place — it's the same as getting him for five or six years. This guy will be gone by the trading deadline next summer. No guarantee the Sox get him then.

I agree with you, though, on not compromising the farm for this guy. Crisp, Lester, Lowrie (who's projected to be a second baseman in the bigs), Masterson and one other player is reasonable.

 

That's some retarded logic, vp. For one, you know as well as I do that there's no way Boston would outbid New York for Santana if he did make the open market. Honestly, it's a 0.0% chance, both because of the Yankees' deeper coffers and their obvious desperation (whereas Boston's rotation already looks good). But the more obvious flaw in your reasoning is that negotiating rights are not valueless. You're pretending that the exclusive right to come to a contract with a player is worthless when your favorite team spent $51.1 million for exactly that last off-season.

To a Red Sox fan it's reasonable. To anyone else it's an absolute joke. Lester is going to be a league average pitcher, Lowrie might become a league average second baseman, Crisp is a bum, and Masterson is still an unknown. That is what you expect to give up for one of the 20 greatest pitchers of all-time right in his prime? Good grief. The entirety of Boston's farm system, Ellsbury and Buchholz aside, is not even collectively worth what Santana is worth. Hell, no single player on the Red Sox with the exception of Ortiz (and Manny if he rebounds) is worth what Santana is worth to a team, and that's really saying something because hitters are inherently more valuable than pitchers.

 

please note that I said one other player in addition to those four. also, when I say "reasonable," I don't mean equal value. I doubt very much that the team that winds up getting Santana will return equal value. Nine times out of ten a team that trades away a superstar doesn't get equal value in return. The same things you're saying about possible trades here you could have said about A-Rod getting traded for Soriano, or Pedro being traded for Carl Pavano and Tony Armas Jr. Shit happens, and more often than not, the big market teams like NY and Boston screw the other team. So in that context, yeah, it's reasonable.

Now don't make me drive all the way down there to kick your ass, fuckface.

 

Pavano and Armas were much more highly touted prospects than Lester, Lowrie, and Masterson, while Soriano was already established as a superstar by that point. The Ellsbury + prospects offer is "reasonable," even if still not close to equal value, but the Lester poo poo platter is absurd. If the Twins accept that, then they're not even trying.

 

they'll accept it and like it. I'm not disputing your contention that the sox haven't offered close to equal value. and regardless of how Armas and Pavano compare to lester, et. al., that trade was still incredibly lopsided. the trade the tigers just made was lopsided. what did the royals get for Carlos Beltran? Mark Teahan, Mike Wood and John Buck. Craptacular. the list of trades where small market teams get their asses reamed goes on and on and on. I don't see how, if the sox-twins trade were consumated today, it would much more or less one-sided than a lot of trades that have been made over the years.