If we cut Jake

Or, believe it or not, it could be more than just damning Delhomme. There could be other factors that might not even be dismissed out of hand, but dismissing them outright is an interesting way to define truth. Part of the reason that a number of people state "it's not just ________" is because it's never one thing.

Relative to the defense, QB hurries don't really give a benchmark. It's largely unrelated unless you had numbers v/s other teams' numbers. It's undeniable that our offensive line has not been that good.

It's rare we throw more than three. We're protecting a lot.

I disagree. And it certainly wasn't always the case with Weinke either, as erratic as he is.

And that the goal there isn't the same as what we're doing on third down, which is what's failing.

 

Lately, this is the trend: instead of arguing for or against an opinion, it's stating why the 'opponent' shouldn't be allowed to give an opinion. It's more conscientious than saying that the 'opponent' is just a fucking idiot, so I guess that's progress.

 

Well, shitfire. I don't live here, unfortunately, so...eh, sorry.

Point well taken there. I think the point coming into 06 was to take the running game to another level. We run to set up the pass. When we can't run, the PA loses integrity. The difference between this year and last is that Smith is not getting open.

 

My whole point in starting this thread is that there are probably lots of teams out there who would sign Jake and see him as a potential starter. While opinions on here about him vary wildly I would bet the guys out there who make lots of money evaluating players would snap him up. The only way to test this is to cut him and see and that is not going to happen.

 

Jake would instantly upgrade several teams. But, then again, so would I.

He's not going anywhere, despite Mort and Terry Bradshaw's "we want Jake cut" orgy.

 

If I hadn't used any hair spray in the 80's, would there still be global warming?

 

rake:
Someday I aspire to be the manager, but for now I fish my meals out of the garbage can behind 7-Eleven and make spare cash from selling the soda cans people throw away.

Look, dude. You're the one who exaggerates and misrepresents the statements of people who criticize Delhomme. Meanwhile I'm the one who has actually done the work to look at the percentage of third downs from 3-7 yards vis-a-vis previous seasons, the number of Jake's completions coming from 5 yards or less this season as compared to previous seasons, the number of QB hurries, etc. I've done an extensive amount of statistical research and have looked at the problem from all angles. No one has considered the issue more than I have, and while that doesn't guarantee that I'm correct, it raises the odds pretty significantly.

It's undeniable that our offensive line has not been good at run blocking. It's also undeniable that our offensive line has been above average at pass blocking.

It's not that rare. We'll often have the fullback and tight end out into the pattern in addition to the two wideouts. Usually it's three or four guys, but generally you'd think of "loading up on secondary blockers" as meaning more than just keeping one extra guy in. The number of receivers running routes has not been an issue for us.

No, what's failing is that Jake sucks donkey dick at hitting a receiver accurately who is more than 5 yards downfield. He's just been awful at it this year for whatever reason.


FSF:
Thanks for reminding me of another flaw. Jake is probably the worst QB in the league at selling play-action. For what it's worth, Troy Smith is someone who actually does it exceptionally well.


Thelt:
Your point in creating this thread was to raise topics that have already been beaten to death as if they hadn't been discussed before. It's a take off of your previous tendency to post something others had already posted as if it were your own idea. I think you may be a little slow. But anyway, no, being the worst QB at something means you aren't going to upgrade anyone at all in that area.

 

Smith will be there when we draft in 2007. Could be interesting to see what the Panthers do but I can't see Fox using a pick for a QB.

 

And you're the one who tries to discredit people who don't criticize Delhomme. Yay, you!

And yet that doesn't make it good just because it's less than the number we score as a D. That doesn't make it relevant, and thumping your chest about it doesn't make it useful.

pass blocking does not equal sacks given up. OL pressure and the amount of blocking we use aren't directly relatable. Stats, Inc. doesn't list sacks given up for non-linemen. And yet we're less talented, obviously.

We'll often have the fullback and tight end out into the pattern in addition to the two wideouts. Usually it's three or four guys,

It is when you've got an extra guy

ye olde "Jake is the problem" speech again. And he's been accurate past 5 yards. If more of our 5+ yard routes weren't deep passes, there'd certainly be a higher percentage here. We use too many short routes, certainly. We take the same approach on 3rd down as we do in other downs, passing, because we
*keep the run a big option on 3rd down
*still pass too short on 3rd
*protect more

 

If he could somehow make it to our second round pick, I would love that, but it obviously isn't likely. I damn sure don't want to draft any QB in the top 15, though. I'm not sure who I want, I'm just sure about that.

Lots of people don't criticize Delhomme and I don't care. The two things on this issue that bug me are people who exaggerate and misrepresent the opinions of those who do criticize Delhomme because those people can't argue the facts (you, solarte, LarryD), and people who pretend that Jake has been fine. People who admit that Jake sucked this year but hope he will be better next season are cool by me. I disagree, but I can't say that they're wrong, I'd just rather not take that chance.

Sure, let's pretend like none of these statistics I expended the effort to come up with mean anything at all. That's basically what you've done throughout the Delhomme argument when someone brought up facts that disputed your assertion. You've either equivocated or you've ignored it, but you haven't spent any time coming up with any facts or statistics that actually supported your own idea. My guess is that you haven't because you know you couldn't.

I already addressed QB hurries. We're not the best in the league, but we're definitely above average.

"Loading up on secondary blockers" would seemingly mean keeping more than one extra guy in, but whatever you actually meant, the fact is that we do not keep extra blockers in more often than most other teams. We, like most, usually have four or sometimes three guys running routes.

No, he hasn't. The statistics prove that he hasn't, but even more obviously, anyone who has watched the games can tell that he hasn't. We've always been a team that throws deep down the field, but this year we're taking fewer shots than ever and still Jake's percentages are way down from what they were in previous years. He's having enormous trouble delivering the ball accurately on simple outs and posts. The dude is screwed up, and his suckage has killed our offense.

We don't use different passing plays than the ones we did in previous years. Jake knows that he's off and is too scared to throw downfield anymore. He obsessively dumps off instead.